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Author: Subject: Obama!!!!
johnba
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icon10.gif posted on 11-4-08 at 09:17 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote
Obama!!!!



Oh yeah hes in let me know how bad it feels to vote Republican.

Fuck Wes!
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[*] posted on 11-4-08 at 10:36 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


oh ya, pwned them good

cheers,
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[*] posted on 11-4-08 at 11:46 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Turnin that white house black, boo yeah

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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 12:36 AM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


welp...i knew it was going to happen...
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 02:04 AM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


good things do happen!!!!
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 08:24 AM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


It was a massacre. Even Indiana went blue. Two months ago, anyone around here would have said that's impossible.

G.W.B. said the election four years ago was a "mandate". Last night's election was a mandate.


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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 09:03 AM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


I still think the Electoral system needs to go...after all, the fact that you could call a 52% win a "massacre" means something is wrong. I'm not saying it wasn't fair in this instance(Obama did win the popular vote), but it's misleading and CAN be unfair quite easily.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 11:42 AM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Winning by 6 points in the popular vote is huge dude...

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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 12:01 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


oh REALLY?
Bill Clinton, first 5.66%, then 8.5%
George H.W. Bush, 7.8%
Ronald Reagan, 9.7%, then 18.2%
Richard Nixon second term, 23.2%
Lyndon B. Johnson, 22.6%

That's just since the 60's... in that time, only bush, carter, and nixon's FIRST term have won by less than 5%

In other words, 6% is NOT huge. At all.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 12:13 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


yeah, theres a lot of racists out there!!!
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 12:21 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


rascism i dont believe hurt obama. Obama got the vote of like 95% of blacks in large part due to the color of his skin, and sadly the racist are gonna vote down the line republican anyways.

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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 12:24 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


I agree that i don't think racism hurt him much...probably was helped a lot more by it than he was hurt, honestly, considering racism can be present in any race.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 12:51 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Just a note, i am NOT saying all the black people who voted for him are racist. Just that...some are.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 01:03 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


dont worry, it isnt racist, although there may be a couple blacks who refuse to vote for "whitey" most are doing it because they recognize how racism has woven itself into american history and culture, and a black president would help to insure that racism is seen as mainly something in the past than the present.

Romans 12:10
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 01:21 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


listin to the song Chocolate City by Parliament. You will understand it all!

Fuck Wes!
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 01:36 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Danga, i wasn't trying to suggest racism AGAINST whites, but rather FOR blacks. Of all the Obama supporters I know in real life, more than half of them give "he's black" or a variation as their reasoning for voting for him. Now, i'll believe that that's skewed some because of my area(which is usually strongly republican).

However, i hadn't thought about what you said before. I don't really think most others have either though. The majority of voters are far more ignorant than they should be.

For those that did have a simialar viewpoint, i wouldn't call that racist.

It could backfire though. If he does in fact do a good job, it could help assuage racism to a point, but then again, if he DOESN'T...
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 02:54 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by GojanTorresque
In other words, 6% is NOT huge. At all.


It seems my memory has failed me. Still big in comparison to the last two elections (and Clinton was indeed very popular).

And also when you use CAPS it appears that YOU'RE SHOUTING. Chill out.


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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 03:36 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


I agree with mig about the caps, whatever your intentions are it makes it seem like your shouting.

mig, 6% isnt a huge difference, (but it isnt small), lets remember how close the past two elections ahve been, and how this has really caused america to become divided, i think kennedy/nixon was the last close one before 2000. Interesting thing i learned though, obama is the first democrat to recieve 50% of teh vote since carter in 76.


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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 05:54 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Danga, you didn't know about Dems not getting 50% of vote since carter... Busteed is slacking. Republicans use to bitch all the time that Clinton only won because of the Third Party split (which was probably the truth).

Gojan, racism works in both directions. I would say that your right in that racism probably worked FOR Obama rather than against but not because of the black vote (they make up a relatively small segment of the "minority" population in this country). IMO,"enlightened" people realized that a large chunk of the voting population is racist enough (consciously or not) to the point that they would never honestly consider voting for a person if he/she were black, brown, or yellow. That same segment of the population was conscious enough to realize this fact and acted accordingling by donating, volunteering, or just actually voting on election day. All that being said, I personally think that the best thing that Obama could achieve as president has already happened. White control of the highest federal office has come to an end, that will be his biggest legacy. He would have to: reverse the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, return to a fiscal surplus, and "win" the war on terror to appease the segment of the population that feels that they were somehow slighted w/ this election. The thing about 99.9999% of "Republicans" is that they think and believe only what they want too (like most people but to an unbelievable extreme). America would have to to a complete 180 just to make those idiots shut the fuck up. The odds were against Obama from the onset and they will never shift in his favor, IMO. I do wish him and his administration the best of luck though!

Quote:
Originally posted by johnba
Oh yeah hes in let me know how bad it feels to vote Republican.


John, just think about how it felt for the last two elections and you get general idea. The biggest difference being that most "Republicans" are retarded w/ an over inflated sense of self entitlement, FUCK 'EM!!!!! They lead us down one of the worst periods in our history and they are unappologetic for it, the least we can do is RUB THEIR FUCKING FACES IN IT!!!!!!


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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 06:41 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Quote:

The biggest difference being that most "Republicans" are retarded w/ an over inflated sense of self entitlement, FUCK 'EM!!!!! They lead us down one of the worst periods in our history and they are unappologetic for it, the least we can do is RUB THEIR FUCKING FACES IN IT!!!!!!



That statement would normally pretty much lose you any respect that i had for you, but i'll give the benefit of the doubt and explain my reasoning here. You talk about republicans only thinking what they want to believe, then make closed-minded, ignorant statements like that about the people who disagree with you? I consider myself a republican(sort of anyway....) and I have never insulted anyone for being a democrat. The world is not divided into "Republicans" and "Democrats." Even though most people call themselves one or the other(in america anyway), very few of them actually agree with their party on even almost all the issues. People are just people, their opinions should be taken individually and considered logically, not lumped together and considered wrong just for belonging to the other party.

I also don't feel "bad" in any way about my vote. I am disappointed that McCain lost, but oh well...I voted for who i wanted to win, and they didn't, it happens, I'll live.

I'm going to try to continue being reasonable though, and point out that you do have a valid point about the black vote. I wasn't trying to say that they won it for him, or even that he won because he was black. I'm simply saying i think that entirely too many people supported him for only that reason. He probably would have won either way.

Also, I'd like to apologize about the caps. I was trying to imply emphasis, not screaming.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 07:57 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by GojanTorresque
Quote:

The biggest difference being that most "Republicans" are retarded w/ an over inflated sense of self entitlement, FUCK 'EM!!!!! They lead us down one of the worst periods in our history and they are unapologetic for it, the least we can do is RUB THEIR FUCKING FACES IN IT!!!!!!



That statement would normally pretty much lose you any respect that i had for you, but i'll give the benefit of the doubt and explain my reasoning here. You talk about republicans only thinking what they want to believe, then make closed-minded, ignorant statements like that about the people who disagree with you? I consider myself a republican(sort of anyway....) and I have never insulted anyone for being a democrat. The world is not divided into "Republicans" and "Democrats." Even though most people call themselves one or the other(in america anyway), very few of them actually agree with their party on even almost all the issues. People are just people, their opinions should be taken individually and considered logically, not lumped together and considered wrong just for belonging to the other party.

I also don't feel "bad" in any way about my vote. I am disappointed that McCain lost, but oh well...I voted for who i wanted to win, and they didn't, it happens, I'll live.

I'm going to try to continue being reasonable though, and point out that you do have a valid point about the black vote. I wasn't trying to say that they won it for him, or even that he won because he was black. I'm simply saying i think that entirely too many people supported him for only that reason. He probably would have won either way.

Also, I'd like to apologize about the caps. I was trying to imply emphasis, not screaming.


Let me just begin w/ saying that I dont care one way or the other what you think of me. I dont know where you live in this country or who it is that you associate/surround yourself with and in general I would never hold those sorts of things against someone. I have never and will never apologize for offending someone's sensibilities, if you have the nerve to call yourself a "Republican", support bush and voted for McCain than I almost hope that I offended you! Its not a matter of believing the whole of one parties "beliefs", its about acting towards the COMMON GOOD!!!!! Bigotry (racial or sexual), pre-emptive unjustified wars, and self interest driven financial deregulation (CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS) are all forms of selfishness that the current form of "Republican" has assimilated and made part of their core beliefs! Guess what bud, 30-40 years ago I WOULD HAVE BEEN A REPUBLICAN because I believe in small federal government, government NON-interference in moral/social issues, and pro business in the form of reduced federal taxes. If you can honestly say that you're a "Republican" in modern times and terms then you're passively or actively pulling the wool over your own eyes! As for the comments in my previous post that "offended" you, please try and keep in mind that I wasn't talking to you or about you. My man John and I have had plenty of time to discuss the ineptitude of the current form of the GOP so it was a statement for a like minded person (something a modern "Republican" should understand as only they can save us from terrorism and unite the country, if you can remember as far back as 2004 when that was their DIVISIVE tactics for re-election of G.W.B.). I voted in 2004 for the CLEARLY better candidate and he lost. For the most part I like many other "intellectual elites", lol, swallowed that horse pill with as much dignity and humility as could be mustered. Four years later the country is even worse shape and the party that was responsible will never be held accountable, so the least that that party could do is take the loss w/ some humility!!! I have had to listen to "Republicans" bitching and moaning all day long and I dont really care to read the same shit on this forum. If it makes you feel better to call me and my statements "ignorant" then go right ahead, I have to do the same thing about "Republicans" all day everyday. All that being said, I do apologize. Not for the things I have said but for my inability to understand modern "Republicans" and their inherently selfish tendencies.

I wasn't trying to turn this thread into a flame throwing competition. I hope that the members of the SpicyLemons will forgive me.

As for spelling in CAPS, please dont apologize. Showing ones passion is critical in getting a point accross, IMO.


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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 08:32 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


I voted for McCain more as a vote against Obama than anything else(mostly for personal moral reasons, and I won't even discuss the specifics here) . As for Bush...I don't so much support him as think that people are blaming him for too much and taking a lot of his actions out of context. I wouldn't say he was a good president by any means, but i also wouldn't say he's nearly as bad as people make him out to be. I didn't vote for him though.

I call myself a republican, because on the issues that i care about most, the party generally agrees with me. I agreed with Obama on several issues. If you disagree on those issues, that's fine, I understand, but to insult all republicans based on some, or to insult them based on the general beliefs the party has, is by definition closed-minded and Ignorant. That's the same kind of logic that causes all the racism people have previously complained about.

If you have an issue with republicans complaining(which I understand...it annoys me to hear people whine about the loss too. I express my opinion to a few friends one time and let it drop, personally) then you need to take your frustration out on THOSE republicans. I would almost guarantee i heard just as many complaints from Kerry and Gore supporters in 2000 and 2004.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 10:57 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by GojanTorresque
I voted for McCain more as a vote against Obama than anything else(mostly for personal moral reasons, and I won't even discuss the specifics here) . As for Bush...I don't so much support him as think that people are blaming him for too much and taking a lot of his actions out of context. I wouldn't say he was a good president by any means, but i also wouldn't say he's nearly as bad as people make him out to be. I didn't vote for him though.


You voted against Obama because of personal moral issues.... but you wont go into specifics. The man you voted for cheated on his first wife until she contracted a terminal illness then he left her and married the woman he had been having the affair with.... I would love to know your parameters for morality. As for bush, he doesn't get ENOUGH credit for the shit he has done. "No child left behind"... well I guess I am clearly biased as I have plenty of family members who are teachers and that piece of shit legislation hasn't help one aiota... but then again they are only teachers so they wouldn't know anything about what to and not to do when it comes to informing our nations youth. That is pretty much the only generally neutral piece of legislation I can mention as most of his others stir up extreme emotions regardless of what you think about them.


Quote:
Originally posted by GojanTorresque
I call myself a republican, because on the issues that i care about most, the party generally agrees with me. I agreed with Obama on several issues. If you disagree on those issues, that's fine, I understand, but to insult all republicans based on some, or to insult them based on the general beliefs the party has, is by definition closed-minded and Ignorant. That's the same kind of logic that causes all the racism people have previously complained about.


Um, until you can actually nail down some "issues" that you care most about that the party agrees with you certainly dont get the right to accuse me of ignorance.

Quote:
ig·no·rance
Pronunciation:
\ˈig-n(ə-)rən(t)s\
Function:
noun
Date:
13th century
the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness

I am lacking in lots of areas but knowledge, education, or awareness dont happen to be some of them. If you can bring yourself to vote for any current "republican" candidate (local or federal) then you're supremely selfish. I do know selfish too, that is something that I am not ignorant about as I would say I am one of the more selfish people you could meet, but that doesn't mean that I let my personal selfish tendencies over rule my logic. I am so selfish that I realize and embrace the notion that what is good for everybody is going to benefit me! When my fellow man does well, I do well too. Additionally, to use the term "ignorant" would imply that something hasn't been thought about before, which is most certainly not the case. I insult the party as a whole because they have made it clear over my life time that their personal agenda supersedes the interests of the nation. Reagan and his formal declaration of "The War on Drugs"(Nixon actually started the "war" but he never was so bold as to declare it), impeaching Clinton even though what he had done had nothing to do w/ how he governed, and lastly bush and his blatant disregard for civil liberties or the truth or the sovereignty of other nations.

Quote:
Originally posted by GojanTorresque
If you have an issue with republicans complaining (which I understand...it annoys me to hear people whine about the loss too. I express my opinion to a few friends one time and let it drop, personally) then you need to take your frustration out on THOSE republicans. I would almost guarantee i heard just as many complaints from Kerry and Gore supporters in 2000 and 2004.


Let me just start w/ the fact that both of those elections where won w/ lies and deception. 2000 as we all know bush did not win! Besides the popular vote/hanging chad debacle the the entire way that the state of Florida handled the count/re-count was the essence of partisan. I wont even go into the "compassionate conservatism" mantra that bush was peddling (a lie if ever there was one). 2004 was the pinnacle of Karl Rovean political tactics. Wilfully making "the war on terror" a divisive issue, supporting swift boat veterans against Kerry (T. Boone Pickens actually funded it but he did so at the request of the GOP), Gay rights (as if they didn't deserve them in the first place... WTF?), and immigration (the borders should have been in the top 5 after 9/11... why weren't they secure already?).

I do have to give you mad props though. Coming onto a board w/ such a blatant difference of opinion (I think, as you wont actually be specific) and sharing a part of yourself and your views is a bold and daring thing to do, its not easy.


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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 11:23 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


Ok, i'll try to clarify a little, but otherwise, I'm going to just "agree to disagree" so to speak.

I wouldn't even consider calling you ignorant of the issues, or information about the candidates. What i was referring to was you knowledge of republicans in general. You obvious know of some republicans, but you can't reasonably blame the rest for the actions of some, even if it were a majority who were the problem. If you want to insult the party, i can understand that, what i have the problem with is you assuming the anyone who agrees with them enough to support them is automatically "Selfish" "retarded" and other such labels.
I have absolutely NO problem with you supporting Obama, or disliking McCain. I don't like McCain either, nor did i like Bush. The last three elections, I've had a "lesser of two evils" mentality toward them. Honestly, I'd say that all six (major) presidential candidates in the last three elections have been rather ridiculous. But, I'd admit Clinton was a good president, for example. I support the person i think is best based on individual issues, not based on which party they belong to, it just so happens that the republican party agrees with me on MORE issues, generally speaking.

As to why i won't be specific on most of these issues, it's because i don't want to debate individual issues. I am simply trying to make one point, and going off of the main topic to argue, for example, immigration policies, wouldn't help that point.
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[*] posted on 11-5-08 at 11:42 PM   «:|:»  Link to post Reply With Quote


I take liberties in insulting the party as a whole (and those who would support its behaviour, however you wish to interpret that) because the way the GOP functions is easy to sum up: Your either with us, or against us. If you choose not to acknowledge this fact, you simply prove my point all the more. I certainly don't think highly of the democratic party, very little in fact, but by in large the Dems. are such a bunch of pussies that they cant get away w/ the same lies, manipulation, or corruption as the GOP. GOP is full of masters of the art of "bait and switch" and they continue to get away w/ morally apprehensible things that would warrant jail time. Almost all elections boil down to "a lesser of two evils" scenario... like you already mentioned (and I say all the time) the electoral college system needs to be changed or just done away w/ all together! The problem is that we have a two party democratic system (really a representative republic, but that is a discussion for another time) so also like you already mentioned a 4-6% margin of victory isn't all that much, except that people realistically only had two choices so the figures should be close to 50/50, right?

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